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Reply: Terra Mystica:: Strategy:: Re: Acolytes Strategy

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by Ranior

I recently picked Acolytes in one of my ladder games and did horrible with them--I had no clue how to play them and oouldn't find many/any strategy guides so I just had to look for some high scoring Acolytes games and divine what others were doing....and I didn't do well.

This thread has been very helpful in understanding this faction better and has shown me a lot of my mistakes in that game. Frankly I hated playing Acolytes as I felt so hamstrung to do anything, and I suggested I'd never play them again....but now this thread has me wanting to try again. So I think I'm trying to say thanks all for chiming in and for the OP starting the thread.

Reply: Gaia Project:: General:: Re: Best way to teach to someone with no prior knowledge

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by Mentat1231

vir3ns wrote:

There is a basic setup for 2 players in a rulebook. You could also play solo at first to prepare for some tricky questions.

Be sure to have a good understanding of:
-Gaiaforming
-5th level of tech tracks
-forming federations
before you try to explain that!

Good luck :)


This is very good advice. Also, as with all games, it helps to start with how you win (in this case, most points after 6 rounds of scoring + final scoring objectives), then unpack what a turn will be like. Make sure you get it first (perhaps by playing solo, or at least setting everything up and contemplating some rounds).

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by czorny

Decar wrote:

I maintain the twitter account for Carcassonne Central and frequently hunt social media for photos of people playing their games. I would say in the last year at least as many, if not more photographs contain the new artwork.

I appreciate that is a skewed-percentage of the entire population; but I find as many pictures being shared as I did 4-5years ago, so I think that's a good measure that the game is as popular as it's ever been; or at least a similar number of games are being played.


OF COURSE more and more people will play new version, because old one is no more. They print only new artwork now and old one is history along with all expansions.

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by DragonsDream

czorny wrote:

Decar wrote:

I maintain the twitter account for Carcassonne Central and frequently hunt social media for photos of people playing their games. I would say in the last year at least as many, if not more photographs contain the new artwork.

I appreciate that is a skewed-percentage of the entire population; but I find as many pictures being shared as I did 4-5years ago, so I think that's a good measure that the game is as popular as it's ever been; or at least a similar number of games are being played.


OF COURSE more and more people will play new version, because old one is no more. They print only new artwork now and old one is history along with all expansions.

but the new one isn't very popular, no one plays it and there are only a few expansions for it.
or would you care to walk back your original statement?

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by czorny

Decar wrote:

..that was weird analogy....

It's not an analogy, it's mostly a saying.

Decar wrote:

Games need to modernize to remain competitive and appear attractive to new players. No one is playing with the artwork from 1st edition Monopoly from 1903. There comes a point where a game needs to rebrand to remain attractive. Hans im Glueck made that decision after 14 years and is continuing to support development of the game and the series as a whole.


Of course, games need to modernize, not doubt. Just this particular modernization seems a bit clunky to me. At least they could publish new expansions for both new and old version, considering the number of player database. So yes, I think they're basically forcing people to purchase the same game again, providing you're sucker for expansions.

Reply: Gaia Project:: Rules:: Re: Planetary institute income phase

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by DocCool

If an ability is described in the box of the PI (i.e. the rectangle on the player board in the home color which has a picture of the PI near the left edge), then that ability is only available once you've built the PI.

Faction abilities which are available right from the start are found elsewhere on the player board - often in the upper right corner above the spots for the Gaiaformers.

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by czorny

DragonsDream wrote:

but the new one isn't very popular, no one plays it and there are only a few expansions for it.
or would you care to walk back your original statement?


I love how you NEVER read anything and simply being sarcastic. Keep never reading people replies and only picking words. You definitely will win every argument with this fine strategy!

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by DragonsDream

czorny wrote:

Since all new Carcassonne expansions now for new version only, there's no much interest in them. New version isn't very popular, as far as I'm aware. I personally don't like it at all.


here's your quote. you claim the new version isn't very popular and that there isn't much interest in new expansions. those are your words. do you still make that claim and if so, what actual evidence do you have for such a claim?

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by czorny

DragonsDream wrote:

here's your quote. you claim the new version isn't very popular and that there isn't much interest in new expansions. those are your words. do you still make that claim and if so, what actual evidence do you have for such a claim?

I think I already expressed myself pretty clear above. If it wasn't enough for you - not my problem. Try to read my replies multiple times and hopefully at some point it'll click. Skol!

Review: Ginkgopolis:: Ginkgopolis - A Quick Solo Review

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by Preston Gamers Guild


I found this game for sale cheap on the bring & buy tables at Bolton GNOME's all day event and remembered seeing it on the BGG solo games geeklist as well as being mentioned in the Punching Cardboard podcast so thought I'd give it a shot.

It turned out to be another great solo game. Deceptively simple but a solid challenge.

You are expanding a city, building outwards and upwards and ultimately have to get the most victory points via area control.

The board starts as a 3x3 grid of tiles with lettered tokens around the outside. You have a hand of 3 cards that correspond to either the building numbers or the letter tokens.



You can play a card on its own to get a resource, tile or victory point or you can play it with a city tile to expand the board. If you play a letter card, you place the new city tile on that letter and move the token into an adjacent free space. This lets you control the way the city expands across the table to some degree. When you place the tile, you gain resources from the adjacent building tiles. These are either more city tiles, victory points or resource markers. It costs you 1 resource marker to place a tile.
If you play a numbered building card with a new tile, you place that tile on top of the relevant city tile on the board. this costs resource markers equivalent to the height of the stack, so the higher you build, the more expensive it gets but the tile is worth more resources.
You keep the building card played thus and it adds either in-game or end game bonuses.

The AI is solid and provides a real challenge. At the end of the game, points are gained for having area majority in adjoining city tiles of the same colour, points awarded based on the height of tiles.

It is a challenging puzzle game and fairly quick to play - a game takes around 40 minutes or so. Definitely one that will get played quite a bit. It can also be packed down into a different bag/box very small so works well if you want something to stick in a bag when travelling.

Reply: Carcassonne:: General:: Re: Possible Concentric Circles expansion?

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by Decar

czorny wrote:

Decar wrote:

..that was weird analogy....

It's not an analogy, it's mostly a saying.

An analogy is the comparison between one thing and another. I was comparing a heard of Cows to the board game industry.

czorny wrote:


Decar wrote:

Games need to modernize to remain competitive and appear attractive to new players. No one is playing with the artwork from 1st edition Monopoly from 1903. There comes a point where a game needs to rebrand to remain attractive. Hans im Glueck made that decision after 14 years and is continuing to support development of the game and the series as a whole.


Of course, games need to modernize, not doubt. Just this particular modernization seems a bit clunky to me. At least they could publish new expansions for both new and old version, considering the number of player database. So yes, I think they're basically forcing people to purchase the same game again, providing you're sucker for expansions.


That would require twice the amount of development and twice the amount of production costs. It will also confuse new people coming into the hobby, I have to field a lot of questions from people who are not clear what version of an expansion they are buying. Besides, the publisher considers the old artwork and the new artwork to be compatible. The tile are the same size, and the backs are the same. As when you need to replace your older tiles, you can pick up the new artwork. The publisher isn't forcing you to do anything.

Reply: Gaia Project:: Strategy:: Re: Investing in the Science tech track

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by Chrondeath

samtang wrote:

Well, I find the Science tech track works well for the Lantids.

I am still not 100% sure: this is the best way to play the Lantids, but it looks like it works with quite a number of setups.

Could you expand on that a bit? What about Lantids makes you lean towards the science track with them?

Reply: Gaia Project:: General:: Re: Best way to teach to someone with no prior knowledge

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by AlexFS

I was in your situation (introducing the wife), and here are my tips, in addition to the above:

- setup everything beforehand, not to bother her with that phase.
- think about some thematic explanations that will facilitate explaining some concepts : for instance I told that the areas were particle reactor chambers, with low/high/ultra-high energy particles, and that only the ultra-high energy particles could be mobilized to achieve the amazing things these civilizations can do, but you need to get all particles into high energy before getting them to ultra-high energy levels. Or explain the green cubes as artificial intelligences that know for instance how to navigate certain stretches of the galaxy, hence giving navigation bonus, etc.
- don't explain everything in one go. Start to play as soon as possible, and explain the rest as you move along (gaiaformation, federations, etc). Sometimes people want to know everything before starting to play, but then can't take the infodump, so resist that.
- agree that this is a learning game, and discuss her options, almost like a semi-cooperative game. Do play competitively, to show her what to watch for.
- don't insist on finishing this game if the play starts to overstay its welcome. If it's taking too long then agree on stopping while you both are having fun. Next time you'll be able to get a full play.

My wife is looking forward to play again, so mission accomplished on my part :D

New Image for Majesty: For the Realm

Reply: Gaia Project:: General:: Re: Multiple Automa

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by gingko78

GJDavies wrote:

I made some PnP automa cards from the PDF, but scanned the backs of the official cards to make them double sided. Also, tinted my new backs slightly purple to easily mark them out from the others. I'll make a third one soon, and tint them green I think.


Could you please share this PDF with the backs of the official cards? Thanks!!

New Image for Tash-Kalar: Arena of Legends

Session: Carcassonne:: Three Rounds of Carcassonne: How Young Is Too Young to Play and Monastery Math

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by Tardigrade Matsuri

I introduced Carcassonne to my family last month because my brother and his daughter (6) were visiting my parents, and our childhood games at their place don't stand the test of time. For example, my niece plays Uno, which I don't think is very good for kids because the take-that mechanics invite tantrums. I thought Carcassonne would fill the gap of a child-friendly game that entertains adults as well.

Playing the second edition, Carcassonne claims to be good for players 7 years old and up. My niece is very gifted intellectually, but she's lagging emotionally. One more reason to stay away from Uno. I figured she could handle Carcassonne. I was right and wrong—but in an interesting way that other players hoping to introduce games to children might want to consider.

Game 1: Base game, no farmers. Players were my mother, brother, niece, and me. I played last, so I drew only 17 tiles, one fewer than the other players. Here are the results:



I had little difficulty explaining the rules. My niece understood them and didn't misplay, e.g. by trying to place followers on other players' features. So far so good.

The game progressed well for my niece, but not from her perspective. She drew city tile after city tile, which would satisfy most players, but as her city grew larger and larger, the other players began scoring while she hadn't a point to her meeple. No amount of explaining to her that she would eventually be awarded the city's points, even if she didn't finish it, helped. In hindsight, the crucial moment was when she drew the city-city-city-city tile. It can be hard to close that off.

At this point she threw her first tantrum. "Everybody has points but me! I hate this game! This is the worst game ever!" or something to that effect.

Two more problems arose for her. One, a hole in her city developed that I suspected could not be filled. In the image, it's identified as "A," just south of what I think was the start tile ("S"). It could only be filled by a field-road-field-city tile, which the base tile set doesn't have. In fact, my research indicates that only Inns & Cathedrals has such a tile.

The second problem was the tile to the left of "A." The city tiles to the north of it were placed by my brother and me (I was trying to connect to him). Then, my niece drew this field-city-field-city tile. I don't know if she had no other options, but she connected her city to my brother's city (mine was connected later). On the one hand, it increased the odds one of us would pull the F-R-F-C tile, which at the time I thought existed, and place it to close the city for her. On the other hand, she would need to share the points with us.

By this point, my niece had had it with Carcassonne. She insisted on playing on my brother's team, which was a clever strategic move because he ended up winning the game by a plurality of points, with my mother and me trailing him by about 20 points, and my niece further behind.

One aspect that vaulted him above us was that I never drew any monasteries. It's a problem I've seen happen before when I played with some friends (and was again the last player of five). A weakness of base Carcassonne is that the more players there are the higher the likelihood of wide tile swings against players. I'm confident that in a four- or five-player game it's not possible to win without drawing the monasteries. I'll discuss this topic below.

So what lessons for those considering introducing Carcassonne to children? A practical one is that I'd hesitated to include the abbey tiles from Abbey and Mayor, and wow do I regret that decision. For younger or inexperienced players it can really help fill a nasty tile gap. The base game and many of the expansions can't save players from many situations, and even if they do have appropriate tiles, players who need them might not draw them.

Lesson number two is that I misestimated my niece's reaction to the game. I remember as a child (and this could be wrong) hating games when I believed I was going to lose. The game is fair when I'm winning, not when I'm losing. I didn't expect my niece to take her lack of points in itself as an indicator of the game's unfairness. She lacked the capacity yet to consider what would happen in the game's future.

Because Carcassonne is usually a longer game than Uno, I think I'll recommend that she keep playing on my brother's team—with abbeys.

(Incidentally, my brother and I are color-blind, so all the players were either color-blind or carriers of the gene (probably, genetics can get complicated). Many players dislike the color scheme of the second edition, and while I think I like the original edition's style better, it sure looks drab to me. So for those of you who think it looks like Kool-Aid vomit, recognize that those of us who can't see some colors so well have a reason to prefer it.)

Game 2: Base game, no farmers, with abbeys. My niece and mother bowed out so the remaining two games were just between my brother and me. This game took roughly ten minutes. What struck about it was that (a) the board was very contiguous (notice no need to place any abbeys), and (b) I drew five of the six monasteries, four of which I closed. I won this game decisively.

Here's the map:



Game 3: Base game, no farmers, with abbeys. This game was the most interesting strategically and tactically. I decided to change my play style to aggressively poach as many of my brother's cities as I could. In game 2, we just kept to ourselves, and I'm not here to play multiplayer solitaire. My brother joked that my lack of aggressiveness served me so poorly in my last game, but I pointed out that winning by luckily drawing monasteries isn't good gameplay. I should play anticipating a bad draw.



In the circled cities (thanks to the abbey) we fought very aggressively. I had three followers down to his two. However, the abbey ultimately filled a gap that I pondered about closing. I had three followers tied up, but I remembered that one C-C-C-C tile that would fill it. The odds were slightly less than even that I'd draw it because in a two player game it's a 36-35 tile split, and I was the second player. Do I hope for the odds or do I play the abbey, get my followers back and walk away from this one.

I played the abbey, severing the city into multiple parts and ending the stalemate.

Later on I drew the C-C-C-C tile, which, to be honest, may or may not have happened had I not played my abbey. If things are different, they're different.

I believe the monastery split was 4 for my brother and two for me. My brother closed off all of his (36 points), but I couldn't complete any of mine (14 points). 22 points is a pretty bad monastery deficit, but ultimately I lost by about 17 points. Had I waited on the C-C-C-C tile and plucked it, my deficit would've shrunk to just 1 point, and I probably could've played my abbey tile in the gap marked "A" on the map for the victory.

I was very satisfied with this game because it showed that aggressive strategy and patient tactics can win the game over poor monastery breaks.

Monastery Math: Just how bad is it? This was the question these and other games of Carcassonne have raised.

There are six monastery tiles in the base game, and players draw 71 tiles among them (in the original edition I think its 72). Thanks to MS Excel's "hypgeomdist" formula it's easy to calculate the odds of successful tile draws. In a two-player game, it looks like this.



So a 4-2 split, like in game 3, happens about a quarter of the time. A 5-1 split (game 2) occurs in about one game in twelve.

Within each split is a distribution of how soon players draw their monasteries. In some games, they will be backloaded and harder to finish, but that's probably rare. Monasteries are point-topias in Carcassonne. They're easy to surround, and multiple monasteries readily help one another. I'm guessing that a monastery scores more than 8 points in a game on average. Thus a 4-2 monastery split creates a 16-point deficit, which won't be that easy to clear other tile draws being equal. In game 2, with the one-in-twelve 5-1 split in my favor, that's a 24-point deficit, which is really hard to overcome.

In a four-player game, the distribution looks like this.



One important strategy is to not be the fourth player.

Okay, the stakes of a Carcassonne game ought to be low, but player count and position do matter. In one in eight of these games, though—and I think that was the case for my game 1—the 3-x-x-x split pretty much guarantees a 16-point advantage over at least one other player.

Lesson: Adding expansions (or even just the abbot mini in the base game), including their scoring mechanisms and not just their tiles, will probably help even out endgame scores, especially when multiple players are present. Beyond this, and I've written enough on this subject so I'll step off soon, it might be wise to remove one or two of the F-F-F-F monasteries to balance out the game.

I'm interested in other players' thoughts on how they think the math affects Carcassonne's balance.

Reply: Gaia Project:: General:: Re: Best way to teach to someone with no prior knowledge

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by OedipussyRex

HeWhoEatsBabies wrote:

So, I've thinking of the buying Gaia Project, but I'm slightly concerned my wife will have a mind fart and never play it passed the first 10 minutes. Has anyone developed a method for easing someone new in (especially someone who hasn't read the rulebook)?


I think the bigger question is will she listen to the rules explanation past the first ten minutes? This is not a particularly difficult game (I think), but it does take 20 to 30 minutes to teach.

Reply: Arimaa:: Variants:: Re: 2 Tweaks to Make Arimaa Better

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by Xilmi

The second player not being forced to mirror but being able to adapt to the 1st players setup already does mitigate the first-mover advantage!

The 2nd player can always put their elephant on the same column as the other players camel while making sure that the own camel is out of reach of the opponents elephant and maybe on a column opposing the opponents horse.

Unlike with chess where white has a significantly higher win-percentage than black, this is not the case in Arimaa. The last time I looked it was 50.3% to 49.7% in favor of Silver.

Reply: Carcassonne:: Sessions:: Re: Three Rounds of Carcassonne: How Young Is Too Young to Play and Monastery Math

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by swheelock

I'm not sure about the math, but it was good to read about your niece's experience. I've never considered the delayed gratification that comes with game-end scoring, and how hard that would be for a kid.

My little girl's six, but I'd never get through a full game with her. She'd check out mid-game and start dancing her meeples around, or making obviously illegal plays, or whatever. I've always thought Carcassonne would be too long for her, and now I'm fairly sure that the points system wouldn't help that at all.
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